Hello - I’m having an issue with my eco7/ smart meter at the moment and wondering if it is something OVO can help sort out (Not currently with OVO, but my current supplier aren’t able/ willing to help)

Basically, I’m renting a flat which has had an eco7 set up for years. The previous tenants however decided to get a smart meter installed and when this work was carried out the eco7 fusebox was disconnected, meaning that whilst we still have an eco7 fusebox, there is no electricity going from the smart meter to the eco7 fusebox.

We have had several electricians visit, all of whom have said the only remedy is to get our electricity supplier out to reconnect the fusebox, however this has been harder than I expected. Our landlady is really wanting to get the eco7 reconnected as she is wanting to install storage heaters in the flat.

Is this something that OVO can help us with?

Hi @robturner07  and welcome to the Forum.

I think we could do with a bit more information on the existing Smart Meter, and possibly a photo.

The preferred method of having a separate E7 fusebox (more usually call a Consumer Unit) is to have a 5-terminal Smart Meter. This has two “live” outputs, one of which is only energised when the cheap-rate electricity is available.

It’s worthwhile noting that the concept of Economy-7 is being replaced by more flexible tariffs. As we include more sources of renewable energy within the Mix, there will be “cheap rate” electricity available on sunny and windy days too.

The 5-terminal Smart Meter is future-proofed against these changes because your Energy Supplier can send alternative tariffs to your site on a daily basis, allowing you to choose whether you’d like to take advantage of these daytime slots.

There is an alternative method to achieve the same effect if it is specifically Storage Radiators that you want to have installed.

You could purchase the innovative Quantum radiators, manufactured by Dimplex.

The Quantum has an integral control panel which links to the Flex Platform, designed and operated by Kaluza.

The central Flex computer has direct connections to the National Wholesale Electricity Market and weather forecast data. This data combined such that the Quantum is supplied with the required quantity of the cheapest electricity in order to meet your set-temperature for the next 24 hours.

The user need not know when the radiator is receiving power, nor try to second-guess how much to store for the following day. The Quantum units can be connected to your ordinary Consumer Unit, rather than a separate E7 supply. Flex automatically adjusts your bill downwards because it knows how much energy was actually supplied for the radiators.

Are we able get this sent over, @robturner07?

The preferred method of having a separate E7 fusebox (more usually call a Consumer Unit) is to have a 5-terminal Smart Meter. This has two “live” outputs, one of which is only energised when the cheap-rate electricity is available.

 

Yep I suspect a 4 port smart meter was fitted, and the main consumer unit was connected, with the off peak consumer unit being disconnected. 

If that’s the case, we will be able to fit a 5th port smart meter, but unless your smart meter has a fault, it will be at a cost of £106 (£325 if 3 phase). More info here:

You could purchase the innovative Quantum radiators, manufactured by Dimplex.

The Quantum has an integral control panel which links to the Flex Platform, designed and operated by Kaluza.

@Transparent please be aware that the OVO are no longer offering Dimplex heating solutions to new customers. See our update page here for more info. 

Thanks @Tim_OVO . I wasn’t aware that the Quantum storage heater was a Trial. I thought it was a fully commercial product, available from Dimplex outlets.

Hi @Transparent and @Tim_OVO  - Thanks so much for your replies, super helpful!

Yeah, our current smart meter rs a Landis + Gyr one, pictures below - It looks like it is a 4 port meter instead of the 5 port, so would need replaced if we want to use the eco7 function.

Thanks again for your help both!

Hi - first time posting on this forum!

I’ve recently moved into a property which has an old Siemens S2AM-100 dual rate meter and a rotary time switch (that doesn’t seem to be set to the right time!). I’m currently on British Gas’ Standard Variable Tariff (single rate) so the incorrect time doesn’t currently matter as they just sum the R1 and R2 readings. I have a gas hob, and currently no proper heating.

I’m looking to install electric storage heaters, and my electrician advised I needed a new meter, as I believe despite the existence of the time switch there is only 1 ‘tail’ actually coming from it. So I contacted my current supplier to enquire about a new meter. They attended today but were unable to install a meter as apparently their smart meters are unable to cope with the dual rate requirement for storage heaters.

Browsing the OVO forums, it looks like the latest smart meters installed by OVO would allow me to have a 5-terminal electricity smart meter with the connection to a smart gas meter - is this correct? And would this allow my electrician to install a modern storage heater as proposed?

Thanks in advance! 

Phil

Heya @philearp !

Welcome to the forum! :)

You’re actually in luck, because to be honest… The smart meters that British Gas installs are often terrible - the Landis+Gyr E470 is a nightmare that I’d rather avoid if it were me!

And yes, predictably… That model cannot handle your setup as L+G does not offer a Five-Terminal variant of the E470 that I know of.

I’m actually curious about your current meters, would you be OK to share some snaps please? We don’t see Siemens ones very often!

And yes, the Aclara SGM1416-B should handle your setup just fine. It’s a SMETS2 meter that’s also a Five-Terminal model and that’s one of the options OVO has, along with installing a SMETS2 Flonidan UniFlo Smart Gas Meter. If your current gas meter is the diaphragm type, then a UniFlo will definitely fit just fine. We can identify the type you currently have if you’d like us to. You’d then be able to get the electrician round to install your storage heaters properly. It’s important that your electrician works with you and OVO to get everything wired up properly, so that the meter can correctly control the storage heaters as intended. For now, feel free to ask them to install the storage heaters and do as much wiring as possible, but not commission them juuuust yet. It’ll save time later.

If you’d like OVO to do this, you’ll need to switch your supplies over first. I also need to ask @Tim_OVO or @Jess_OVO to double check whether they can think of any other possible blockers. Usually if you’re already E7 you can switch to OVO and remain E7, but in your case this might be a little more complicated. I think you can get away with it, but I’d rather play it safe! But if not, get BG to put you back on Economy 7 for now without a Meter Exchange and then switch to OVO while maintaining E7. That should work.

Thanks for such a prompt reply!

Yes - here is a picture of the full electricity meter setup - I’m not an expert but it looks like there’s just one single ‘live’ tail going out the bottom right corner of the cabinet to the consumer unit.

Here is a close-up of the meter itself. Property was built in the late 80s, but no idea what has been done between then and now!

And here is the gas meter, located in a separate cabinet on an external wall.

Hopefully it is possible to switch as-is.. British Gas were very unhelpful when I started talking about Economy 7 tariffs - I think they’re only offering it on a fixed tariff which has an exit fee . I’ll leave it to your colleagues to advise!

Oh wow, that is an old setup! This is only the second time I’ve seen an Imperial Gas Meter on this forum and I’ve been on here for around 15 months now. And by the looks of things, it’s probably due for an upgrade - the service life is likely to expire for both meters soon.

You can definitely switch to OVO with this setup (provided no other blockers exist), just be mindful that switching right now doesn’t guarantee the best deal. But then again, you’re with British Gas anyway, so almost any supplier will be cheaper than what you’ve currently got.

Looks like you’re missing a few tamper seals there as well actually. That’s a safety issue which definitely needs to be resolved. You can try to get BG to do that and it’s free of charge. But if they refuse or get stroppy again, OVO would be able to arrange that repair once you’re on-supply.

Upgrading to a Five-Terminal Smart Meter looks possible based on these photos. The timeswitch would be removed by the engineer and all the meter tails would be re-wired into the replacement meter. You wouldn’t need your electrician to do that. Not that they can anyway. :)

As for the gas meter? Piece of cake! That’s a Diaphragm type and the cupboard is a perfect size for a shiny new Flonidan UniFlo meter. Just a heads up - the new one would be metric rather than imperial, but the billing platform would handle this so you don’t have to.

There’s actually someone on here who would probably rather enjoy seeing that setup. The question is… Do I show him this one? XD

(As a bit of a nerd myself) I think it would be rude to not show them!

I’ll wait to see if there is an answer from your colleagues regarding the switch to OVO E7 with my current setup. Thanks for your help!

No worries :)

I’ve pinged that user a lot recently, so I won’t try to get their attention right now. I might send him a PM with a link at some point though.

Tim and Jess should be back in the morning, so hopefully they can give their thoughts then.

See you around!

Good to hear from you, @philearp. 

Blastoise is spot on as per, OVO do offer 5 port SMETS2 smart meters:

My only question mark is what an electrician does vs what an energy supplier engineer can do on site, for a supply currently connected to a 4 port meter and a time switch.

I wouldn’t want to promise you our engineer could do all the work required if you then switched to OVO and encountered an issue on the install day. I’m also surprised that British Gas weren’t able to fit a 5 port meter on the day. Even if they couldn’t use L&G, surely they’d have lots of customers in a similar situation… this tells me there might be more at play then just a simple 5 port install. 

I’m also aware that we’ve tagged this member a lot (I know who Blastoise is referring to), and I don’t want to spam their inbox too much. But just in case they’re about today, let’s see what @Lukepeniket_OVO thinks: can an OVO engineer turn this into a 5 port smart meter set up with no time switch? - 

 

 

Thanks! 

A bit more info if it helps:

As the storage heaters are yet to be ordered/installed, I think my electrician was looking to have the ‘always on’ tail wired into the current consumer unit (similar to now), and that some sort of connector block (that the electrician could in future connect to) would be attached to the ‘switched off peak’ tail. 

The electrician would then redo the consumer unit when the storage heaters are installed to get the ‘always on’ and ‘switched’ feeds connected up and going to the right places.

Hello!! Weirdly I was going to comment on the setup but you've already tagged me which is amazing!!

So, yes we do install the 5 port Aclara meters to handle the storage heater circuits, no need for an external time clock as it's all controlled by the meter.

The next step I would do to enable you to be ready for an electrician is to fit isolators, one for your domestic (lighting power etc) and one for your off peak supply (heating/hot water) from that point onwards your electrician can connect the new off peak supply from your fuseboard to the isolator in his own leisure.

Now this next part is a personal preference of mine and as a Smart Engineer we have to talk about energy efficiency. If I was you I would look price up both electric storage heaters and gas central heating (I mean the meter is there already) and have a look at cost to install versus running costs for both systems. Whilst electric storage heaters may be cheaper to install I'm betting they will be more on the running costs.

Shouldn't you be encouraging lower carbon heating?

@M.isterW tis a valid point! I should be but I'm also all for economical solutions and hopefully the transition to hydrogen will quickly pick up

We could meet down the middle and look at ASHP like yourself have got I would say your set up is one of if not the most green setups I have seen!!!! 

You’ve got to hand it to Luke. He clearly thinks ahead way more than I would!

Thanks for popping by, @Lukepeniket_OVO. I hope that’s helped you know the next steps, @philearp 

If you have any follow up questions, I think we have content that can answer them. First off, why an isolator? 

Second, what about the cost (if on supply with OVO):

Your current supplier should be able to fit these as well. You could reach out to them and price compare?

Lastly, storage heaters benefits and disadvantages. See OVO’s storage heater guide here. And to learn more about heat pumps, well, the likes of @M.isterW and content like this has you covered:

If and when you wanted to start the journey to get on supply with OVO, here’s the link to view our available plans. 

Thanks, all!

The only question I still have is whether I could join OVO with my current single rate tariff set-up and be transferred to an E7 tariff after I’ve joined and had the meter upgrade work done? 

I’d have to ask Tim to check that.

Usually, you can indeed switch supplier first, do the meter upgrade and then switch to/from Economy 7. However, certain features of OVO’s new billing platform are still in development and support for doing exactly this wasn’t ready the last time I checked.

If possible, it would be safer to get BG to switch you to Economy 7 before switching to OVO. If you come over while already on Economy 7, then OVO can indeed support your setup with E7 running and do the meter upgrade after switching.

Your current metering setup is compatible with E7 and would work for the short period before you can upgrade - but please do NOT allow BG to attempt another meter exchange. They’ll probably only choke again if they retry.

Yep, @Blastoise186 you’re spot on. I’ve checked for an update this morning. @philearp the billing platform will have this functionality added later on in the year. It doesn’t at the moment. 

For now, I would advise that you explore once more what your options are with British Gas visiting to fit those isolation switches, fitting a 5 port smart meter (SMETS2) and requesting that this gets changed to an eco-7 tariff. Or if British Gas really can’t help you with a 5 port meter, reach out to another supplier that is able to do this work and change you to a 5 port smart meter and an economy 7 tariff. You will always have the option of choosing OVO or another supplier at a later date with a SMETS2 smart meter. I’m sorry that for technical platform reasons, we can’t currently offer that 2-rate economy 7 tariff change after you’re on supply with us.

Hope this helps, please message here with any updates or follow up questions. It will be helpful for anyone else in a similar position as you!  

Although I’m not an Ovo customer I have found very little help on this subject and I was hoping someone could give me some advice...

When I was with Pure Planet they arranged for the 4 port SMETS2 smart meter to be fitted. We have 3 zones of dry/electric underfloor heating on the ground floor and when we got to data access to our power usage from our new supplier we were shocked to see that the meter was claiming we were using nearly 40kWh of electricty per day. When I turned off all 3 underfloor heating zones off, our usage instantly went to about 9.5kWh per day. Reading this thread, is it the case that we had the wrong type of meter installed and that we should have the 5 port instead?

tt.

Hi @tintin_uk and welcome to the OVO online community,

So great to hear you’ve already found our content helpful. Just to clarify the 5 port meters mentioned in the guide above may only be required for certain underfloor heating set-ups. So if your heating has still been operational since getting a 4 port meter installed, I suspect a 5 port meter wasn’t needed in your case.

Often 5 port smart meters are installed for customers on a dual-rate plan, such as Economy 7, which allows storage heaters to use energy at cheaper rates overnight. Again this might not be appropriate for your heating set-up. Have you been monitoring your usage using your smart meter In-Home Display? This can really help identify and reduce your usage peaks.

Hope this information helps.

Thanks for your reply.

The crazy thing about the smart meter display is that it was pretty much in the green/low usage when the UFH was active except when say, we had the washing machine and/or dishwasher running and then it would maybe creep a little into amber. Not once did I see it go well into the amber or anywhere near red levels. That’s why we didn’t realise we had a problem until I installed my providers app on my phone which gives a lot more granular data on daily and weekly usage.

It just doesn’t seem feasible for 2 people in a 3 bed house to consume that quantity of electricity.

How interesting, @tintin_uk.

It sounds like the daily budget settings for your IHD may be set a little high in that case. Sure our resident IHD expert, @Blastoise186, would be happy to help work out how to adjust those if you let him know which type of IHD you’ve got there. If you’re not sure you could always post a photo here as he’s a whizz at identifying them too.